At risk of being lambasted as a luddite, old fogey or even a fossil there is something that has been on my mind for a while now and with respect I need to free my mind of these concerns and as the old saying goes, publish and be dammed.
The other day, during the discussions involving British Airways and the Unite union Willie Walsh became upset because Derek Simpson, one of the union reps, was twittering or tweeting, things that were going on during the negotiations. It was a closed meeting.
Recently at presentations I've attended attendees have been tweeting what was going on during the presentation. Making comment during the show. In some cases it has distracted members of the audience and not least the presenter.
Do members think that this is an ethical thing to do? Is it bad manners to do this? In effect the twitterer is having another conversation during a meeting or presentation. Is this rude? Do some ethical principles need debating here and what does CILIP think?
I'm a user of social media and am all for new technology but do some common courtesies need to be restated?
Hi Stephen,
With respect, I do think that twittering during a closed, confidential meeting is a very different prospect to twittering during an open presentation. The former case is a clear ethical breach, but I don't really see any ethical problems with the latter.
I and many others find it incredibly useful to see tweets from people attending presentations and talks - it's a good way to share information with those who are not able to be present. When I have tweeted from presentations, I've always had messages later from people who've been following my tweets, thanking me for sharing.
If the audience and/or the presenter find it a distraction, then that's obviously an issue that needs to be addressed. Personally, I don't find people around me tapping on laptops or phones to be any more distracting than people taking copious notes on paper, tapping their pens, shuffling around in their seats or clearing their throats. Perhaps it's just a matter of getting used to people using electronic devices around you? I think if you're sat in a group of people watching a presentation, you do expect a certain level of distraction.
I also don't consider tweeting during a presentation to be bad manners. If I were giving a presentation, I wouldn't expect everyone to be looking directly at me all the way through it. In fact, if people weren't taking notes in some form - whether that be on paper or using their phone or laptop - I'd worry that they weren't finding my talk interesting enough to want to remember it later and/or share it with others.
I think that a compromise needs to be reached here. If the events organisers or presenters are unhappy with people using electronic devices during a talk, then they need to make that clear at the start and people will respect that. The reality is that people will bring their laptops and phones to presentations, and will expect to be able to use them, so the ettiquette on tweeting etc. needs to be dealt with along with the general housekeeping notes at the beginning of the presentation. I have been to presentations where a reminder was given at the start to leave phones on silent and be considerate of others if you plan to tweet or blog during the session, and I think this works well. It's also been suggested that if the majority of the audience are likely to find twitterers distracting, then perhaps there should be a designated area in the room for twitterers to sit.
I'm glad this has been brought up. I'm actually writing a comment piece for the Gazette about this at the moment. I think it's important that both sides in this debate understand where the others are coming from. We need to avoid antagonising those who don't like people tweeting at presentations, and also avoid alienating those people who find it useful.
A commendable response Laura and some well thought out solutions. You have also raised some other points to be considered. I'm pleased you felt, as me, that there are issues to be addressed.
I shall look forward to reading your article in the Gazette.
In principle I'd agree that if a speaker is finding something distracting, there is an issue to address. I like the idea of working together to find a solution. But, really, speakers at events aimed at Information Professionals should expect this to happen, increasingly so. So the onus may be on them to work around it?
Different events have different demographics - a library event is almost certainly going to have a fairly new-media aware demographic. So many of us use Twitter etc, and there's a massive community of Info Pros online. If you go to an event to do with Repositories or some particularly techie aspect of libraries, you get looked at wierdly if you're not working on a laptop or phone! I've been at conferences where people have basically not looked up once - they spend the whole time on their laptops, tweeting away. Interestingly, the person who spent the most time tweeting at a recent event I attended in London turned out to be the keynote speaker.
Techie people are often early adopters - they've been using real-time web applications to report on conferences as they happen for a while, and the rest of us less techie people are catching up and starting to do it too. In two or three years, every phone will be a smartphone, so everybody will have the option of using the web wherever they are and it will be increasingly common to do so. The trouble with tweeting on a phone is that it has a visual legacy from texting - it looks like you're texting a mate; texting during an event would be a singularly rude thing to do, and clear evidence of disinterest. Tweeting, on the other hand, looks identical to the casual viewer but isn't (in my opinion) rude at all and is of course evidence of the exact opposite of disinterest - the person is so interested, they wish to pass on the information to their peer group or network.
(Tweeting during a closed meeting is a completely different kettle of fish - that's both wrong and possibly in the BA case, probably illegal.)
So all this is a very long way of saying - in a short space of time, the majority of attendees at an event for Info Pros may be communicating about that event using their phones, so we need to adapt and speakers (and other delegates) have to be ready for it and able, essentially, not to mind it.
(Normally I'd use a little smiley there, to mitigate any possible harshness of what I'm saying - but they're all so ugly I can't bring myself to do so!)
To add to Laura's comments I would say that tweeting etc. add to the value of presentations and other training events. As well as giving access to others who can't make it (and giving some free publicity to the trainer perhaps), tweeting opens the debate up - other people can comment, respond and keep the conversation going.
I recently went to the National Equalities in Mental Health Conference, where we were issued with Spotme devices - which gave a paperless package of timetables, presentation slides, and somewhere to take notes - in addition to a proximity function which allowed you to be informed when particular people were nearby, and to send messages. Your notes etc. were put on a secure website and a link sent to you after the event. In fact, aside from the slightly cumbersome design of the thing I felt the only thing missing was the ability to post to twitter. So I was jumping between the spotme handset and my phone.
My own professional development interest and activity has grown massively since joining Twitter - being able to connect with other professionals in such an easy and informal manner suits me much better than the enforced "networking" of face to face events - and being able to tap into what's going on in terms of prestenations and training and conferences makes me more inclined to either seek support from work to attend, or start saving to pay for myself. I don't know if others agree, but I think the Internet and esp. Twitter, allows people outside of London to enjoy the ease of professional fraternisation that those in the Capital take for granted. Now if people would just allow more people to work from home then perhaps we would be able to enjoy the job opportunities too.
Sarah
I like the sound of the Spotme devices Sarah - have never seen anything like that used before, but what a great idea!
And yes, totally agree that Twitter etc. is particularly useful to people outside of London. That's why I try to tweet from as many events as possible - I'm lucky enough to have lots of interesting things on my doorstep, so the least I can do is share!
Edited to add: I also agree that live-tweeting can be considered free publicity for the speaker/presenter/trainer. That's why I find it hard to understand why the presented would object to people tweeting - wouldn't anyone welcome their ideas being spread to a wider audience?
Laura, I completely agree with you. As information professionals we should be embracing knowledge sharing through technology and much of what you have said is plain common sense. I find tweets useful and may not necessarily seek out any formal report of a public meeting or conference, so it widens my boundaries allowing me to be more up to date within my working environment.
I have just chaired a day at the Legal IT Think Tank and two people on the front row were taking notes / tweeting, one had a laptop - and the other an Ipad. They were not at all distracting, discourteous or offensive, and with it being an IT conference there were many tweets going out as well as a professional reporter there.
I agree that private meetings should be just that, private, what ever the media.
Regards,Kate
Thank you for starting this interesting topic!
I don't think that twittering about a talk, during the talk is unethical where the talk is open. Obviously, in the case of the BAA/Union rep tweets, that is unethical because those are closed door meetings where the participants are working under the expectation that the discussion is private but there is honestly no situation I can think of where that could be expected at a conference.
I came into libraries/information profession from the tech sector, so I realise that this may not be as common an occurrence as I assume in the Info sector but backchannels where discussion and information sharing during talks take place are common - Twitter is just one more service that facilitates them but they have existed previously through IRC and other chat protocols and they allow for fact checking and simultaneous engagement without verbal disruption to the speaker.
Twitter is, I'll grant, a far more public backchannel - the IRC rooms obviously required you to know where they were and to be on IRC while hashtags on Twitter are accessible to anyone with a browser but they do allow for a further dissemination of information to people who couldn't be there and a platform for discussion where physical presence of interested parties is not available but the meeting is not closed - for example, the recent debates on the Digital Economy Bill were discussed on a backchannel on twitter by members of the public who obviously could not physically be in the Commons but also by MPs such as Tom Watson who were in the debate itself. And yes, there have been cases where the public nature of the backchannel has backfired - twitter steams behind speakers where attacks on the speaker were made visible to everyone in the room including the speaker but frankly, that is unfortunately one of the flip sides to free discussion on the internet.
Laura makes some extremely sensible suggestions - I can't say I am entirely enchanted by the idea of a separate area for users of the backchannel, personally but certainly I do think that unless it is explicitly stated for a valid reason at the start of a talk, the assumption is going to be that there will be a backchannel somewhere and it is far better that it is located and announced upfront.
(Also, yikes! Those are some awful smiles! Eeek!)
Cheers for adding your thoughts Ned - I totally agree with what you're saying (and you don't sound harsh, even without the mitigating smiley!)
I think the demographics thing is an interesting point. I go to a lot of BIALL and SLA events, which tend to attract a fairly techie crowd. I think the only time I've known tweeting to be an issue was at a recent CILIP event, which had a noticably different audience - generally older for one thing, although I'm not sure that's the main issue as I saw people of all different ages tweeting. As you say, this sort of thing is becoming more mainstream and the less techie-types are starting to pick it up too. Perhaps as it becomes more common for people to tweet at meetings it will stop being an issue for concern.
Some good points again Sarah and Ned.
It has of course occured to me that those with different views might not be inclined to contribute their thoughts here in this particular arena of communication. They are perhaps some of the people who might be offended by certain practices at meetings and presentations involving new technological forms of communication.
We know that these new communication devices are the way forward, especially for information workers, but considerations for others who may have, in some cases, paid to attend in person and may even have travelled long distances should not be overidden.
Stephen Cook: Some good points again Sarah and Ned. It has of course occured to me that those with different views might not be inclined to contribute their thoughts here in this particular arena of communication. They are perhaps some of the people who might be offended by certain practices at meetings and presentations involving new technological forms of communication. We know that these new communication devices are the way forward, especially for information workers, but considerations for others who may have, in some cases, paid to attend in person and may even have travelled long distances should not be overidden.
Yes that's definitely the case - I think that's a problem generally, for debates about 'the library', that if they take place online then people with a certain view are almost ruled out from contributing by default (which skews the 'result' of the debate).
It's a two-fold issue - first of all, people who might not like certain technologies or their implications don't get their voice heard because they're not online, and secondly they don't get to hear the sensible arguments FOR the technologies either, for that same reason... Not sure how we solve that, really.
I agree with you that consideration for all different types of people should be taken into accout, and certainly no one should be over-ridden. But I think it's a case of managing the change-over from one ethical code of what constitutes rudeness and what doesn't, to another code, in such a way as to feel inclusive to all - rather than attempting to change (or slow down) practices with regards to tweeting etc. It's a flood that we cannot hold back, whatever our views on it...
(But of course, that's easy for me to say as I like twitter etc.)
Stephen Cook: At risk of being lambasted as a luddite
At risk of being lambasted as a luddite
Incidentally with regards to this bit - I think the fact that you are open to what those of us arguing (to some extent) against your original point are saying, rules you out from being a luddite!
I think the two examples you cite are very different - tweeting during a closed meeting is obviously wrong, but tweeting during a presentation can be very useful.
I've live-tweeted events in the past (with the knowledge and approval of the speakers, who actively encouraged this form of debate). It helped me to keep track of key points, and give an immediate reaction to comments made during the presentation without having to refer to hastily-scribbled notes later.
I've also followed several Cilip events on Twitter which I have been unable to get to, including the recent AGM, which was fully booked. The tweets provided an excellent way of engaging with the meeting and following proceedings from a distance.
Typing a tweet, either into a phone or a computer, is relatively discreet - no different to taking notes on a laptop, say, which is common practice at meetings these days. It is vastly different to holding a conversation with another person during a presentation, or taking a phone call, which is clearly disruptive to others. I don't think it is rude or bad manners - it is simply the 21st century version of taking notes with a paper and pen, and I can't see how it can be distractign to either the speaker or others in the audience if done discreetly.
Thank you Ned.
Incidentally, I have just purchased a laptop and will no doubt be making some good use of it.
Inidentally, as a sort of related issue to all this - twitter is not ideal for covering conferences and events. I'm surprised someone hasn't developed a platform specifically for conference micro-blogging.
Perhaps something that one could sign into with a Twitter account, but which allowed 200 characters for a little bit more freedom of expression, and stated the location and date of the conference, who the speakers are, and then archived the whole thing so it didn't dissapear into the ether. At the moment, if you miss the bit where the tweeter says "I'm at CILIP attending a talk on self-improvement" then you just get a series of detached phrased like "Visualise your goals, then keep a video diary of your achievements #imaginerytalk" in your twitter stream, which isn't always useful.
Really good point Ned - thing is, Twitter wasn't really designed for anything in particular. All the useful features within Twitter - hashtags, retweets, etc - are conventions that grew out of what users started doing with it. That kind of user-driven, organic development is fascinating, but it doesn't make for the tidiest interface! Would be great if someone developed a platform like the one you describe - wonder if I know anyone that's techie enough to suggest that to...
DaveyP FTW!
(Older users of these forums, many apologies for using FTW. :-) )
At some events organisers have given those of us tweeting an area with plenty of power sockets, reliable wifi etc. This gives us everything we need, and keeps us away from anyone who might find muttered curses and two fingered typing a distraction. And, recognising the value that the live feed brings to a discussion, it's become common practice to project the feed onto screens behind the speakers.
In general, tweeting can only enrich a public event and, in the case of the CILIP in London AGM, when the speaker had to leave immediately after his presentation, Twitter was the only forum for debate.
Tom Ropertom.roper@gmail.comTwitter: @tomroperhttp://www.roper.org.uk
I'm not entirely convinced by twitter back-channels being projected onto screens behind the speaker, though - by my own arguments above, I should just get used to it... but that really can be distracting to the speaker, if things aren't going so well and people are responding to the tweets. At the very least, the speaker should also be able to see the back channel.
Fair enough, Ned, though I've never seen that happen myself.
No one here has yet tried to argue that tweeting does anything but enhance professional events, but if I may add one thought: I think that those who are thinking about the content of a presentation and either summarising or responding to it in tweets are arguably more engaged with the speaker and his or her message than those who sit through it passively, or sleep off the effects of the pre-meeting drinks.
Really interesting discussion - I started to post but got carried away and turned it into a full blog post at http://www.meanboyfriend.com/overdue_ideas/2010/05/is-it-rude-to-tweet/
Ned raised the issue of whether Twitter was the best way of microblogging - I'd agree it has some limitations - I'd recommend having a look at CoverItLive - which is designed specifically for this purpose http://www.coveritlive.com/ - although some facilties are only available either if you pay, or if you allow adverts to be inserted into your coverage.
Owen
There is some discussion about the 'backchannel' on Marieke Guy's Ramblings of a Remote Worker blog - http://remoteworker.wordpress.com/2009/03/02/back-in-the-playground-bitching-on-twitter/
Hi Steve,
Thanks for raising the topic. How refreshing to see an active discussion on CILIP Communities. The role of Twitter in bringing people along to comment is perhaps notable.
I would agree with those who see Tweeting as just another way of taking notes. I would hope that CILIP related meetings could embrace the benefits of the wider sharing and learning it enables. Certainly it does seem to be the case that sections are doing this #HLGConf2010 has already been selected for the HLG conference this year for example.
Cheers
Alan
I am totally comfortable with tweeting in presentations and have come to expect it. Its being used to great effect when people tweet things that occur to them that can then contribute to the discussion of Cilip's future. With funds becoming ever more scarce to attend external events, what better way of sharing our professional activities with those unable to be there themselves.
As for tweeting in meetings, especially where anything confidential is being discussed - it just should not happen. Integrity, ethics, confidentiality are all being ignored and any individual tweeting in these circumstances is showing a significant lack of professional judegement and is betraying the trust of their colleagues and, if applicable, those they represent.
Ms Biddy Fisher MLib. FCLIP
I was at the meeting and Glad you raised this issue (I discussed it in my own blog here. Most of the comments here are from a fairly techie crowd (at least 4 'library' bloggers etc). Thats all well and good, But isn't it a bit of an echo chamber? The people complaining about us using a microblogging site I doubt will be reading this (thats what I am seeing via the comments). Stephen, wouldn't it be better to perhaps contact them via snail mail and ask them why they did not want it going on? Most were annoyed, but as Laura said in here post when explaining it:-
I explained that I’d wanted to tweet snippets from the talk for anyone online who was interested but hadn’t been able to come along. He seemed very surprised by that explanation (I don’t know what he thought I’d been doing – perhaps he thought I’d just been playing on my phone and not listening?), and, after thinking about it for a minute, said that he supposed it was a bit like sending scribes to a lecture, so the information could be disseminated more widely.
so some were unaware what we are doing when we type away.